Adventures in C# and Windowsland, part 2 – threading/event loops

Disclaimer I should have put in the previous post: Some might argue why I’m not using Mono. I want to have an overview of the C#/.NET framework at its best, and from what I’ve seen Mono and respective tools (especially) are not even quite as good as Microsoft’s ones. But I will test the final result on Mono for sure.

I recognize I’m blogging quite often, and after all the good feedback I had on my previous post, I decided to give a real overview of what I’m doing, and the flaws I encounter on each side during my adventure. Today, I’ll blog about Threading.

In my opinion, the correct use of threads is one of the factors that sets the bar between the average and the good programmer. Using threads correctly isn’t easy, and some might argue it’s almost an art. So I started researching and finding out how C# handles threading.

After the usual ~30 minutes, I found out that C# handles threads in an unusual manner. Basically, we have a Thread object that works quite like it does in Qt, except for a trascurable detail: you can’t subclass it. The approach of class MyThread : Thread was so common to me (Python, Java, Qt, etc) that I felt suddenly strange. Threads in C# are handled quite like QtConcurrent: you pass Thread a method, that upon .Start() will be executed in a separate thread.

One could start arguing upon multiple arguments here. Where is thread safety? If I call a threaded method on an object (since everything’s an object, right?)  will that object suddenly belong to another thread? What about shared data in the object? The great advantage of having a Thread object is that you know for sure that the inner data belongs to a different thread, and I’m not quite sure it happens here.

C#, in all of this mess, offers a nice solution: the volatile keyword. Long story short, you can apply it to an attribute in your class (volatile int blah;) and be sure that multiple access to that same attribute will be safe, concurrent, and based on the very last value of it. I like this, since it avoids using Mutexes, Locks and friends in situations where it would definitely be overkill.

In any case, I like my usual approach and I like being aware of my threads and objects. So, I found somewhere on the internet a nice class that does that, and readapted it to my very own needs. Here’s the result, in case anyone cared:

using System;
using System.Collections.Generic;
using System.Linq;
using System.Text;
using System.Threading;namespace ChatProtocol
{
///
/// This class really does not belong to protocol, but is implemented
/// there for the sake of not creating another library.
///
/// It allows inheriting from a thread object, just like it happens
/// with Java/Python/Qt.
///
public class ExtendableThread : IDisposable
{
Thread WorkerThread;
///
/// Constructs a new ExtendableThread object
///
public ExtendableThread()
{
if (WorkerThread == null)
{
WorkerThread = new Thread(new ThreadStart(PerformWork));
}
}///
/// Starts the thread
///
public void Run()
{
if (WorkerThread.IsAlive == false)
{
WorkerThread.Start();
}
}///
/// Use this method to retrieve the internal thread
/// object, to perform actions on it, such as locking,
/// synchronizing, etc.
///
/// The underlying thread object
public Thread innerThread()
{
return WorkerThread;
}///
/// Override this method to put the relevant code in
///
protected virtual void PerformWork()
{
throw new NotImplementedException();
}///
/// Quits the current thread
///
public void Quit()
{
Cleanup();
}private void Cleanup()
{
WorkerThread.Join(0);
WorkerThread = null;
}

///
/// Implemented for the interface. Use Quit instead
///
public void Dispose()
{
Cleanup();
}
}
}

Could use some more work, but that’s a beginning. Ok, now I have a decent threading base. Now I need to create an event loop for my thread. After the usual ~30 minutes I find out something that really took me down to the ground: C# doesn’t have its own event loop. Ok, calm down. I so deeply rely to the QEventLoop concept that this thing really blocks me.

Hey, wait. C# does have events, for sure.  So how in the hell are they dispatched if not with an event loop? My curiosity lend me to try this code:

static void Main(string[] args)
{
Timer timer = new Timer();
timer.Interval = 2000;
timer.Elapsed += new ElapsedEventHandler(timer_Elapsed);
timer.Start();
while (true) {}
}

static void timer_Elapsed(object sender, ElapsedEventArgs e)
{
Console.WriteLine("Timer elapsed");
}

What would you say about this? You’d say that the event won’t be dispatched because the program is actually stalled in a neverending loop. Guess what? It works. Try it yourself. For reference, I did the same example in Qt. Pretty nice that it took me (using KDevelop) quite the same amount of time and code, except for the main.cpp file, that in any case was auto generated by KDevelop. The result is the following:

TimerTest::TimerTest()
{
QTimer *timer = new QTimer();
timer->setInterval(2000);
connect(timer, SIGNAL(timeout()), this, SLOT(tick()));
timer->start();
while (true) {}
}

void TimerTest::tick()
{
qDebug() << "Timer Elapsed";
}

As you can imagine, this example will make your CPU beg for mercy just like the previous one, but it won’t show “Timer Elapsed”. Do you think this is a good thing? Yes.

Let me ask you a pair of questions now. We all know the C# example runs on a single thread. We all know that if a function is busy processing, there is no way on earth that another one can be called in the same thread, unless C# is black wizardry. So the question is: in which thread is the elapsed event processed?

Signals and Slots in Qt are completely thread safe, and that’s what I like the most in their approach. Apparently, C# events are not only non thread-safe, but they also spawn threads to process them. What is the logic behind this? Why hiding such things to a programmer? Why making the Threading class so obvious to use, but leaving behind more advanced usages?

It boils down to this point:

The programmer is not an user

Yes, quite right. No matter how easy a language is, programming is different than opening a control panel. Programmers need flexibility, possibilities and power, and if you aim to a simple and basic usage on similar matters, your language fails for me. How on earth I have to wonder where an event gets processed while my program gets stalled? I already have my business in making my application work. If I also need to understand how the underlying mechanism of a programming language works, well.

I really hope I’m failing to see something obvious here. But again, if so => lack of documentation => …

It’s sad, since C# actually has some nice concepts and possibilities. But unless these points become clear to me, they’re pretty useless.

Disclaimer #2: I’m trying to keep an ironic and critic point of view to raise different opinions, maybe learn something more, and possibly to start a discussion. The fact itself that I’m willing to spend hours looking for various things should let you realize that I’m definitely not starting with a “oh god that’s shit” attitude. I wouldn’t even search and try otherwise, I’d just say “oh god that’s shit”. Don’t you think so?🙂

~ by Dario on 10 April, 2009.

70 Responses to “Adventures in C# and Windowsland, part 2 – threading/event loops”

  1. I hope you will continue this kind of posts.
    At least for me they are really interesting.

    At first I thought this will end up in yet nother C# bashing.
    Im glad to see that this is not the case.

  2. I’m not a C# developer, but it looks like there are three different timer classes: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/tb9yt5e6.aspx

    Maybe you want the “Windows timer” ?

  3. @Daniel: Thanks🙂

    @fmontesi: Well, I used a timer just to show a quick demo, so it’s not really a complain against timer itself (that works pretty much as Qt’s one), but more about handling of events. I could have used anything else, it was just to trigger an event quickly. Out of topic, IIRC, the timer I used is also the only one that does not depend on a single platform implementation (the one you mentioned belongs to Windows namespace) or toolkit implementation (there are 2 depending on WPF and .Forms).

  4. There are two kinds of timers in .NET. The first one is the one you just described, the second one is the “windows” timer (in System.Windows.Forms). the second one should behave more like a qt timer (relies on the (windows native?) event loop.).

    Regards

  5. @miro: Exactly. I should have mentioned (pardon me) that C# has an event loop in its Windows namespace, but since I’m aiming multiplatform, and I’m developing a console server (should have mentioned this too), it’s not an option for me. Or am I missing something?

  6. It’s not the event sending that creates threads it is the Timer object you created that uses annother thread to dispatch the timer events.

    Also note that it you are thinking of using asyncronous i/o the callbacks are not executed in the same thread as you started the job in. .NET has a thread pool that is used to dispatch such events.

    The event mechanism in C# does not create or use other threads but the .NET libraries classes does.

  7. Mono supports Winforms as well on all supported platforms.
    Well, the ideal combination is C# + Qt I guess🙂 We are developing Qt C# bindings (called Qyoto) in the kdebindings module, maybe you want to try them🙂 Up to now they only compile on Linux/Mono, but some users have reported to have made them compile on windows as well.

  8. @mlom: Thanks for the clarification. I think this is definitely something bad and unexpected, as it behaves mostly as I thought, and I simply don’t like it. How shall I deal with events that I explicitely want to be processed in a thread? The point in having event loops is exactly this one.

    @arno: Thanks for the hint, even if I already was aware of that and thought about using them🙂. Unfortunately, for my project I’m bound to using the .NET class library, and Windows.Forms or WPF.

    Anyway, my question was more aimed to the Windows. namespace event loop, and not to the Windows.Forms one, since my application is a console one (or are they just the same?)

  9. Don’t implement IDisposable like this, you’ll end up blocking the GC Finalizer thread and your program will hang on shutdown. IDisposable is for unmanaged resources, not an equivalent to C++’s destructor.

    Interesting to see what people coming from Qt/C++ think of .NET, thanks for the article series!

  10. ..maybe using a Backgroundworker (namespace: System.ComponentModel) could be an answer to your threading-needs?!

  11. Personally, I find he C# model to make more sense. After all, why should a timer fail to fire just because a main loop isn’t executing. In my mind, they are orthoganal concepts. The dispatch loop is for processing input events and timers should happen on schedule and have no relationship to input events.

  12. You should try the BackgroundWorker instead of using the Thread class if you want something similar to QThread. Not something you’d know without a little experience/buying a book, I guess…

  13. I’ve never used threads in .NET, in fact they only made a small appearance in my operating systems class (which used a small amount of Java) as a concept, the class was mostly theory, so I can’t comment on them. That implementation does seem strange but I’ll be the first to say that I’m not a programmer, for the features of programming vs. administration that you outlined🙂

    You should try the BackgroundWorker instead of using the Thread class if you want something similar to QThread. Not something you’d know without a little experience/buying a book, I guess…

    I’ve noticed that object in Visual Studio, so that’s what it is! Thanks.

  14. Mono supports Winforms as well on all supported platforms.
    Well, the ideal combination is C# + Qt I guess🙂 We are developing Qt C# bindings (called Qyoto) in the kdebindings module, maybe you want to try them🙂 Up to now they only compile on Linux/Mono, but some users have reported to have made them compile on windows as well.

    Wonderful!

  15. @Paul: Thanks to you for the suggestion! If you want/like to, could you give me some more information about IDisposable and if there is an interface that fits my needs?

    @Hamburger/shash: Thanks for the hint. It really looks like what I was looking for, shame that it has been so hard to find, but definitely the proof that this series of post is really useful🙂

    @Ryan: Well, the problem is that this is not really related to Timers, but to .NET itself. Debugging with VS, I found a thread dedicated to event dispatching. This definitely makes me wonder about thread safety and friends. The implementation looks really complex, an event loop would have made way more sense. But I think it boils down to preferences here.

  16. C# does have destructors: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/66x5fx1b.aspx

    Your problem is that you don’t want the GC thread to be calling Thread.Join(), though, so it won’t help you.

    I don’t have a lot of experience with this, but perhaps the best thing to do is to just set a flag in the Cleanup() method and throw an exception if the object is collected without joining? That would enforce your comment about using Quit().

    Or you could add all new thread objects to a private static list, and only remove them from the list inside your Cleanup() method. The reference would always be there to keep the objects from being collected until you called Quit().

  17. @Matt Nooooooo!! CLR finalizers don’t work *anything* like C++ destructors, and if you use them, you’ll be in a world of hurt. Believe me, *really*🙂

  18. @drfav: I think the advice to use BackgroundWorker is probably the best here, since you’re writing a WPF app – it does just about everything you want it to, except for requiring to be Subclassed🙂

  19. Oh, I know. I’ve never actually had any reason to use them myself. I just saw that destructor feature today and had to comment about it.

    Actually my first thought was that the object should never be collected while the thread in it is still running, and all that code could just go away. But that seems too simple, so I assumed it was wrong since I’m not too familiar with threading.

  20. If you’re interested in how memory management, garbage collection and finalization happens in C# (which you should be if you are programming in C#), I highly recommend reading http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/bb985010.aspx.

    It’s asking for trouble to program in an environment you don’t fully understand.

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